West Vancouver Community Discussion Forums: Forest Fire on the North Shore

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   I have made no secret of my concerns about our lack of a urban forest management plan in West Vancouver, and have posted on a couple of topics relating to those concerns on this forum, so I won't go into that again here.  What I would like to address are my fears that, with the shifting climate patterns the world is facing, the prospect of a significant if not disasterous forest fire on the North shore is no longer an "if" but a "when".

Sometimes I feel somewhat like Chicken Little crying "The sky is falling"...A week before the terrible wind storm last year I expressed concern to my neighbours about an impending plan of the Clovelly-Caulfield committee to impose a ban on the cutting of trees on personal property.  I had done my research and found out that Typhoon Freda had decimated the lower mainland in 1962 and was concerned that the trees on the North Shore were reaching a height unprecedented since the complete clear-cutting of the North Shore at the turn of the century to make way for all the original homes many people find cute, quaint and environmentally friendly today.

Anyway, someone from the committee who chose to remain anonymous, called my neighbours and called me a liar...a week later the storm happened and I felt somewhat vindicated in my quest to at least shed a little light on the rather unpopular side of the tree debate that I sit.

The fires in California this week should be another wake up call, although you'd think the fires in the Okanagan a few years ago would have caused people to at least ponder what the consequences could be of such a close and dense interface with our beautiful trees...and, as I keep saying, I do love trees, and over the years I have planted more than I've taken down, but in smaller and safer versions for my family and neighbours.

In the Globe and Mail today, there was, on page 11, the better part of a page devoted to "What could have been done differently to slow the spread of the fires?"
I urge everyone to read the article in full, but I will note a few points here for anyone who does not have access to the paper:

"Homeowners can reduce wildfire risk"

Home construction materials and judicious tree pruning could be the difference between a house bypassed by a wildfire and on burned to the ground.

Pruning:
Clearing branches up to a height of 2 to three metres: Stops flame from jumping from grass to treetops.  Clears the way for fire equipment.

Windows:
Smaller panes hold up better in their frames than larger ones.  Double paned and tempered glass are more effective heat barriers.

Driveway:  Should be wide enough to accommodate fire equipment.

Plants:  Select low-growing, high moisture, drought-resistan plants for the yard.

Beating the heat:  Fire tends to travel uphill.  Houses at the top of a hill are most vunerable as hot air flows under eaves and decking.  Heat may pass over houses below the edge of a ridge.

Yard:  Brush should be cleared within a 30-metre radius of the house.  High risk areas may require 60-metre clearance.

Eaves:  Should be covered to keep embers from ingniting roof timbers.

Building materials: Should be non-combustible.  Exposed wood can be covered with stucco.  Insides of vents should have wire mesh.

Fencing:  Fences that touch the house should be non-combustible, or use masonry or metal as a protective barrier.

"Forests:  Nobody can deny that gross mismanagement of forests has played a major role in contributing to the extent of the fires raging in Southern California, according to a prominent conservation biologist.
So, while fire is a natural way for the forest to prevent densification, modern practice has been to stop the fires completely to protect homes or harvest the trees.  But putting the fires out has disrupted both the structure and composition of the forests, Reese Halter, president of Global Forest Science, said.
"We think of fire as nature's broom that would cleanse the forest floor every 20, 25 years.(Because natural fires have not been allowed to burn), now the forest floor has got dust on it, the dust being the seedlings and saplings,  And the seedlings and saplings that are here are highly volatile, highly combustible.

In Southern California, it's primarily white fir and incense cedar that's burning, resulting in "much more intense, fierce fires that the forest ecosystems aren't used to," he said.

In many cases, the forest as a whole is removed by large wild fires and the trees cannot come back to colonize because the eath has been scorched so severely.

Because much of Western North America has the same dry forest problem, Dr. Halter believes the best possible solution is to mimic the results of having natural fires.  "If we're not going to have fire, then we need to manually get into the forests that are at that urban-wild-land interface and thin them out" 

End of quote.

So here we are in on the beautiful North Shore...Shakes on the the roofs, shakes on the sides of wood framed houses, some very old and dry without fire-retardents, trees draping over the roads and 50-250 foot cedars and firs everywhere along with dead, topped "amputees" of trees, fallen branches dried over the summer, and yes we sometimes get long dry spells;  One drought, one dropped cigarette, piece of glass on a hot day or a lightning storm, a little wind and presto!  The perfect storm that could make what just happened in California look like a marshmallow roast.

Author	Message
kirsten Newbie Joined: 10 Sep 2007 Posts: 18	Topic: Forest Fire on the North Shore Posted: 25 Oct 2007 at 10:08am
	I have made no secret of my concerns about our lack of a urban forest management plan in West Vancouver, and have posted on a couple of topics relating to those concerns on this forum, so I won't go into that again here. What I would like to address are my fears that, with the shifting climate patterns the world is facing, the prospect of a significant if not disasterous forest fire on the North shore is no longer an "if" but a "when". Sometimes I feel somewhat like Chicken Little crying "The sky is falling"...A week before the terrible wind storm last year I expressed concern to my neighbours about an impending plan of the Clovelly-Caulfield committee to impose a ban on the cutting of trees on personal property. I had done my research and found out that Typhoon Freda had decimated the lower mainland in 1962 and was concerned that the trees on the North Shore were reaching a height unprecedented since the complete clear-cutting of the North Shore at the turn of the century to make way for all the original homes many people find cute, quaint and environmentally friendly today. Anyway, someone from the committee who chose to remain anonymous, called my neighbours and called me a liar...a week later the storm happened and I felt somewhat vindicated in my quest to at least shed a little light on the rather unpopular side of the tree debate that I sit. The fires in California this week should be another wake up call, although you'd think the fires in the Okanagan a few years ago would have caused people to at least ponder what the consequences could be of such a close and dense interface with our beautiful trees...and, as I keep saying, I do love trees, and over the years I have planted more than I've taken down, but in smaller and safer versions for my family and neighbours. In the Globe and Mail today, there was, on page 11, the better part of a page devoted to "What could have been done differently to slow the spread of the fires?" I urge everyone to read the article in full, but I will note a few points here for anyone who does not have access to the paper: "Homeowners can reduce wildfire risk" Home construction materials and judicious tree pruning could be the difference between a house bypassed by a wildfire and on burned to the ground. Pruning: Clearing branches up to a height of 2 to three metres: Stops flame from jumping from grass to treetops. Clears the way for fire equipment. Windows: Smaller panes hold up better in their frames than larger ones. Double paned and tempered glass are more effective heat barriers. Driveway: Should be wide enough to accommodate fire equipment. Plants: Select low-growing, high moisture, drought-resistan plants for the yard. Beating the heat: Fire tends to travel uphill. Houses at the top of a hill are most vunerable as hot air flows under eaves and decking. Heat may pass over houses below the edge of a ridge. Yard: Brush should be cleared within a 30-metre radius of the house. High risk areas may require 60-metre clearance. Eaves: Should be covered to keep embers from ingniting roof timbers. Building materials: Should be non-combustible. Exposed wood can be covered with stucco. Insides of vents should have wire mesh. Fencing: Fences that touch the house should be non-combustible, or use masonry or metal as a protective barrier. "Forests: Nobody can deny that gross mismanagement of forests has played a major role in contributing to the extent of the fires raging in Southern California, according to a prominent conservation biologist. So, while fire is a natural way for the forest to prevent densification, modern practice has been to stop the fires completely to protect homes or harvest the trees. But putting the fires out has disrupted both the structure and composition of the forests, Reese Halter, president of Global Forest Science, said. "We think of fire as nature's broom that would cleanse the forest floor every 20, 25 years.(Because natural fires have not been allowed to burn), now the forest floor has got dust on it, the dust being the seedlings and saplings, And the seedlings and saplings that are here are highly volatile, highly combustible. In Southern California, it's primarily white fir and incense cedar that's burning, resulting in "much more intense, fierce fires that the forest ecosystems aren't used to," he said. In many cases, the forest as a whole is removed by large wild fires and the trees cannot come back to colonize because the eath has been scorched so severely. Because much of Western North America has the same dry forest problem, Dr. Halter believes the best possible solution is to mimic the results of having natural fires. "If we're not going to have fire, then we need to manually get into the forests that are at that urban-wild-land interface and thin them out" End of quote. So here we are in on the beautiful North Shore...Shakes on the the roofs, shakes on the sides of wood framed houses, some very old and dry without fire-retardents, trees draping over the roads and 50-250 foot cedars and firs everywhere along with dead, topped "amputees" of trees, fallen branches dried over the summer, and yes we sometimes get long dry spells; One drought, one dropped cigarette, piece of glass on a hot day or a lightning storm, a little wind and presto! The perfect storm that could make what just happened in California look like a marshmallow roast.
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Mary Newbie Joined: 15 Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 50	Posted: 25 Oct 2007 at 11:20am
	I too am afraid of forest fries in our residential neighbourhoods. It is frightening to think what is happening in California could happen here. It was the fires in Kelowna that started my worry. My uncle nearly lost his home; he was lucky where most of his neighbors were not. If we don’t do something, we likely will have to face the same fate. Money needs to be made available to keep our forest parks well managed and healthy. Stories in the news about damage in Stanley Park also make me worry, our forest parks suffered in last winters storms too. When I see news confirming the dangers in Stanley Park is caused because of storm damage not yet cleaned up, I know we have the same danger. There was no fundraising for our parks to be cleaned up, rather our Parks budget was cut! I worry because dead dry timber is still on the ground in our forest parks. I have been told our firemen have been trained in interface fires, as these brave men retire, I hope WV budget can sustain the special training necessary to keep us safe when interface fires happen. I know cuts to budgets are being made everywhere. The Community Parks in WV are heavily treed and along with the wind fallen trees still n the ground, many small trees and vegetation on the forest floor are dead, and tinder dry. Invasive plants are choking the healthy indigenous vegetation adding to the problem. What can we do about this? Parks budget has been cut again; there are not funds available to manage these “Wood piles” waiting to ignite. (Face facts it is not an “if” but a when; forest fire will happen it is nature’s way) I have stated in other posts that Nature has it’s own tree management plan; it comes in the form of drought, bug infestations, windstorms, and forest fires. I would request that Mayor and Council find money in the operating budget to undertake a gentler form of forest management before it is too late. If we think the cost of cleaning up after last year’s windstorms was high, imagine the devastation to our community and what price a fire sweeping through our district would cost to clean up.
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Hutch Newbie Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 38	Posted: 25 Oct 2007 at 11:29am
	HUTCH. ----To whom is this addressed ?. It might as well be "to the wind" for all the good it will do. ----To implement these proposals would probably cost more than instaliling a sprinkler system and lighting rods on the hillside. ----It has been said by "Engineering Department" that it will take years to clean up the "Boulevards". If most residents don't care why do anything!!. ----If "catastrophic" fire insurance were available, then insure, and let the whole lot burn. ----There have been more than one fires on the hillside. This didn't raise an alarm so why should elegant words of wisdom impress onyone now, particularly our Mayor and Council. ----In my view, you cannot expect a "Nobel Prize" but I do applaud you for tackling an immense and real problem HUTCH. ( my thanks anyway)
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Mary Newbie Joined: 15 Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 50	Posted: 25 Oct 2007 at 1:21pm
	If enough people talk about this issue, I believe Mayor and Council will take notice. Look at the Dog topic, a lot of people talked about the issue they felt strongly about, and a dedicated Dog forum was added to this site. Through that dialogue on the forum, meetings were called and the Mayor attended, now there is discussion at city hall about amending the dog bylaws. I agree these tree issues really need to be looked at. I was going to start a new topic with a controversial thread name like “Clear cut our forest parks and put in a vineyards” just to get people to talk about the tree issue. I don’t want a clear cut of course! As I have said over and over in other posts, I love trees. Healthy Fir, Cedar and Spruce trees, make our air so clean. I would like our parks to be managed, with view corridors restored. For the people who say” trees are the view” or “don’t you like the view of nature”? I say nature is also the Ocean and the Sky, and forest fires! Opening view corridors where lack of funds for Park management has allowed rampant growth of invasive plants and tree growth to obliterate the views many residents in WV. Looking at information posted by Kirsten, perhaps these view corridors could also act; as firebreaks should Parks catch on fire. Parks budget needs to be increased. I would also like to see dwarf ornamental trees along our boulevards, that don’t grow to heights that block out sunlight and take out power lines in the winter. Emergency spending If enough people talk about this issue, I believe Mayor and Council will take notice. Look at the Dog topic, a lot of people talked about the issue they felt strongly about, and a dedicated Dog forum was added to this site. Through that dialogue on this forum, meetings were called and the Mayor attended, now there is discussion at city hall about amending the dog bylaws. I agree these tree issues really need to be looked at. I am happy Kirsten started this new thread. I was going to start a new topic with a controversial thread name like “Clear cut our forest parks and put in a vineyards” just to get people to talk about the tree issue. I don’t want a clear cut of course! As I have said over and over in other posts, I love trees. Healthy Fir, Cedar and Spruce trees, make our air so clean. I would like our parks to be managed, with view corridors restored. For the people who say "trees are the view” or “don’t you like the view of nature”? I say nature is not just trees it is also the Ocean and the Sky, and forest fires! Parks budget needs to be increased. It must be lack of funds for Park management that has allowed rampant growth of invasive plants that are chocking to death indigenous species’ and trees of towering heights to obliterate the views many residents in WV. Looking at information posted by Kirsten, perhaps these view corridors could also act, as firebreaks should a forest Parks catch on fire. I would also like to see dwarf ornamental trees along our boulevards, that don’t grow to heights that block out sunlight and take out power lines in the winter. Money saved from emergency spending restoring lost power could be put to better use. An ounce of prevention and all that... Don't you agree?
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the kid Newbie Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 8	Posted: 14 Nov 2007 at 4:30pm
	What about what I read on another post in the general discussion forum about the budget cuts to emergency service they are talking about shutting down one of our fire stations ... this is a big district if we have less firemen and the woods catch on fire..... Then what?
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